Wed, 2/24 11:04PM • 1:02:47
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
employees, people, organization, hr, folks, important, roadblocks, company, great, work, pandemic, managers, buy, communicate, person, telehealth, department, hear, career ladders, hr professionals
00:04
Hi, everyone, welcome to resourceful humans. I am your host, Corey haber. And I have two very, very knowledgeable and experienced HR professionals with me today, both HR directors, and they’re gonna be here to give us their opinions and kind of tips on how to use HR as an engine of change in your organization, which I think is very important now, and a lot of a lot of things have changed, especially with that virtual remote environment.
00:35
So thank you, Alan, and Ken, for coming on today. It’s so great to have you. Here. Great to be here. Great to be here. Cory, I’m looking forward to talking about this. Me too, I’m ready to hear what you guys have to say. So let’s just get started.
00:51
So go ahead, tell us when it comes to organizational change? Where does HR fit in there?
01:00
Well, first of all, from the organizational change,
01:04
again, organization, the most important and most valuable asset in organizations is people. That’s kind of a textbook answer, you say it and it’s true. So the change has to come from within people. So the conduit between the objective of the business and employees is human resources.
01:23
And that’s the human you’d have people to, to communicate and you know, and to actually, you know, as the way the the machines, per se, of organization. So when there’s a change, and what’s the direction of companies going?
01:37
It’s, you know, in order for that to adjust, when a company decides to pivot, first of all, HR needs to have a seat at the table to help guide that, sometimes.
01:46
What sounds great in a boardroom, or consultants report doesn’t quite add up to,
01:54
to what will materialize? So from from what I’ve seen, and what my experiences you had a what what do we have to work with? In terms of staffing? Are they trained properly? His number is the big one is morale there people ask for, are they ready for it?
02:14
If they’re not buying in, it’s not gonna happen. Or if it’s not gonna, if it does happen, it’s gonna be pretty, pretty brutal and rigid in that in that pivot point. And that role is also that you help pay if you know, the move that big picture that the organization from laptops, putting down from the big picture to everyday needs. So it’s kind of folks that are in the Orient, you know, looking for other, you know, working on their trees to understand, look, there’s a forest here, and that you need to that’s, that’s, we’re trying to move towards.
02:45
Yeah, I couldn’t, Alan, I couldn’t agree more. I think another another big piece of it is communicating the why why are you doing it? Now? Why do we have a need to do it, that’s just such a huge part of it. And I know an HR has a really big role in that. And they know, the way I look when when it comes to organizational change. I think
03:09
HR has a lot of responsibility when it comes to it, but it’s not responsible solely for it. And I think that’s a big, big piece is that, you know, your your operational department, your behind the scenes, departments, things like that they’re all part of it. And what makes it even a little bit more difficult for
03:30
the HR folks is that not only are your HR leaders sort of responsible, maybe for overseeing the change, like sort of being like the project manager of the change initiative.
03:45
They also have to manage the they’re part of the change initiative within their own department. So it’s almost like they got dual responsibility
03:54
Yeah, that’s true, I draw has to do more than just the enemies right, and they can’t be they’re not the sole focus upon the change. And that is often a misconception of we’re gonna you know, we’re going to have a new campaign in terms of a an internal process or new system and imagine that we’re already repurchased or and bought and sold. So you know, it’s not just HR prints principal bunch of of marketing, swag, stress balls, and t shirts, and lanyards, and hat passes them all out. So right now we’re on board and the trains rolling. You know, and that’s a lot that’s a misconception that that often is often used to help get people for the wide though, why is this great? Wonderful. I want to I want to add is one of the it’s I think it’s important. When there is a change of that there’s there’s fear involved in terms of people, the insecurity, how’s this going to affect me?
04:45
And especially in terms of technology integration, and things of that sort, which the pandemic has really, I think, helped people realize, in some cases that most folks especially you know, in this day and time technology is not sure
05:00
But you could have some of the have the same process as they’d gone forever. they relied upon, they are rewarded and received compliments for what they do. And since then, you know, things are basically internal in their head, the world still spanning, the sun still comes up, the company is still working. And it’s I think, in the end, it has been good for businesses to have to do the forcely work from home, that the ones that are able to,
05:26
is it a long term solution, probably not. But I think a hybrid more of a hybrid is definitely there for change. Because, you know, the old adage of some of the work life balance, and you always hear, there’s no such thing as work life balance.
05:39
You know, I think this is the closest thing we’ve got to that recently. But that’s, that’s a whole other conversation, and probably a whole series of podcasts you could have on that. But I think that what I was getting circle back around was, we also communicate that, yes, this is going to be difficult, sometimes there will be setbacks,
05:56
you know, we’ll have to probably change the pivot and change directions. And that’s what a buy in and also, you know, being that morale and cutting, showing that proverbial flat that
06:09
now we are making it the company organization is making a change in direction, whatever process remaining that may be, but, and there will be hiccups. And it’s important that you communicate with your managers and with HR to find those hiccups to the best people you any organization has to look at are your frontline people.
06:29
The best processes that process improvement comes from the bottom, because they’re dealing with it. And many times more times than not, they’re the ones making conducting contingency plans and making it work without anybody above them know anything about it, they’re just trying to get to hit their goal. And, and so,
06:46
you know, acknowledging and owning the fact that this is gonna be a bumpy process, no matter how much you know, how much how much money we spent on consulting, how much, you know, money we spent on, on marketing materials, and jingles and all this stuff. We’re gonna have some bumps every once in a while it and it’s important for HR to communicate, and to also to work with those managers to communicate to their people, like, Look, we’re in this together.
07:11
If there is a long game here, and what you do is important, and I think and then from my experience that does help acknowledge that what’s what’s the is that there’s a phrase called acknowledge the sucker, you own the stuff or something to it, that just this stinks. And it’s important. So acknowledge that, and I think that does rest assure many folks to, to recognize that,
07:36
that it’s gonna be a bumpy road, but in the end, it will smooth out. I think a lot like one of the, you know, if there are any positives that comes along with the, with this public health emergency, I think that
07:50
I think it has shown a lot of organizations that they have the ability to change and pivot, like, rather quickly because they’ve had to do it. Um, I think, you know, if you’re looking at, because I think when you talk about fear, I think it’s, um, you know, live there was some kind of fear in the organization, like, do we have the ability to do this, and I think this, this pandemic has shown that many organizations have the ability to do this when you know, when when push comes to shove, we’ve, for example, like a health care organization, they, many of them were able to ramp up really quickly when it comes to telehealth
08:31
and things like that, and actually, in, you know, in partnership, or in tandem with insurance companies and government, like, you know, getting reimbursement getting reimbursement for telehealth visits and things like that. So, so and you know, and we’ve never really seen I don’t think we’ve ever even seen a situation like this before. Except, you know, like, when you talk about like, you know, in World War Two wartime and ramping up, you know, the, the military industrial complex and things like that, so, like, you know, everybody working together, really, this is another, you know, one thing that this pandemic has shown is that we are able to pivot and ramp up rather quickly when forced to undertake significant change really quickly.
09:20
has been huge. Where I’m located, I’m located in the southeast region, United States.
09:26
In the central Mississippi’s northeast Louisiana area, rural area, real access to real health care is for better or worse, but I live close to the Jackson area, so I have access to very good health care. But you got about 50 miles across the river to the Louisiana Delta. There, it’s rural hospitals, and it’s, you know, early on, if you know, trying to draw, you know, get get access to good health means revenue 40 3040 miles to go to a local, closest city or town to a Regional Hospital or something like that.
10:00
During the early part of the pandemic, and destiny, there’s any type of symptoms, you know that that run, convert, you know, very familiar with the cold and the flu and things of that sort. You know, what do you want to drive all the way to
10:13
the nearest town, where there is a regional hospital or clinic or rural healthcare, where, up until a couple months ago are still having to wait two weeks to get to COVID results. And so to get the rapid list, that’s now been, it’s moved through. And if they’re working, you’re out for two weeks until you find out anything. And so what’s really pushed along with the telehealth is now that we I implemented that with the organization I went this past year, mainly because I’m in the transportation business, and our customers are on the road or on the water for periods of time. And it’s just it’s, it makes sense. And it’s been wildly successful. With this coming into play. It has been it has definitely paid dividends for us. And it’s rolling with our with our insurer. So it’s been a very, very positive thing in terms of using that technology. It’s forcing people to get used to the technology they have.
11:06
Because the investment was already there, it’s just editing us. And so it’s it’s
11:12
kind of doing that stop that before the person has to make that decision to go to drive to that Regional Hospital or to the rural hospital, where that’s, you know, some of the some of the areas where we’ve had some some concern with delayed getting people finding out aid, do they have it, do they not have it
11:28
and also calming their fears and explaining to folks what the emergency paid sick leave act is,
11:35
you know, and also, you know, emergency paid at the emergency FMLA, all of that, because there was concern of Well, I don’t have the sick leave sick days, I really can’t afford and so they were forthcoming. And it’s been a lot of time, you know, sharing folks, you know, even without communication sent out. That was really important. And so, but using that template using the telehealth option is another it’s another great example that I think is helpful that there was a change put in place. And then events, force it over.
12:05
I’m really curious, you guys, I want to hear some examples of roadblocks that you’ve come across, and just what you’ve done to get past those. And especially in regards to using hrs and an engine of change.
12:23
Some of the roadblocks that I’ve encountered, you know, throughout the years, I think it’s really important when you’re implementing change to sort of identify the people in your organization that have influence, you know, and who those people are. And I think one of the roadblocks is like, it’s really hard to figure out who those people are.
12:45
You know, it’s, and that’s, and that’s a big thing, but I think it’s a challenge, it can be a roadblock, if you can’t, if you can’t bring around somebody who does have influence, it’s going to make your job a whole lot harder, you know, on more, obviously more on a micro level, but still, if it’s a, if it’s a key department, you know, you gotta you gotta have problems, because because, you know, while departments may in your organization, maybe departments might be siloed, that doesn’t mean everybody works in a silo. Okay, that means all the different departments are dependent on each other. And, and just, and you know, your strength, your chain is as strong as its weakest link, if you have people in influence in that department, what people who are influences and they can be any light from rank and file employees to department leaders. So if you if you can’t get them on board with it, it just makes the change and implementing the change initiative just so much more difficult.
13:54
Yeah, you’re dead on with that. And was it I had my note was, you know, the roadblock is Ali mentioned earlier, points fear, it’s that fear of the unknown. The mentality of, you know, the thought, well, there’s insecurity, what I’ve got here is mine, and I can do this and I can do my job, and everything’s gonna be fine. And you’re gonna take that away from me. And now what am I here for, you know, folks, you know, that that that thought process comes into play? And, you know, there’s no, you know, what, my problem my department’s not broken, so why are you trying to fix it kind of thing is looking at the bigger picture.
14:32
Those key people, those influencers, some of them are you’re not always your upper level employee, upper level C suite level, the buy in does help they’re in a perfect, correct world that the buy in should already be at that level, and then it just trickles down. But that’s not always the case.
14:52
Especially you know, where there’s a just a, a, you know, the growing pains come into play where there’s some skepticism
15:00
That’s sometimes that skepticism is non verbally communicated through especially medium small to medium sized organizations where you have well that’s still that first name basis with folks.
15:11
You know, but some of them influencers really getting that buy in on folks that are that have been there a while that you’re kind of a company cheerleaders it’s also healthy to have the the the folks that you’re almost your your,
15:24
your you know, your your antagonist there that sit there and that question things, it’s good to have that a little bit of that to kind of question making sure that not everything we’re going to the organization is doing is a pipe dream is where HR comes into play is bringing those folks together and having a serious conversation and help being on that team and letting them be a part of process. Because regardless what kind of structure you have an organization leadership always rises to the top, just by great some things, some people are better at some things and others, those folks are the ones your influencers now on by on my title, but and allow them to know what’s up by buying is in play. And allow them for the for the for the folks who follow who basically follow around or who are influenced by them.
16:11
Move that process. And a good byproduct of that is some cases, it’s not always within the same department. So there isn’t the siloing there, if that’s even a word, but it’s where it’s the state where you can do some cross communication, where it’s like, Hey, this is going to work, it’s going to make our job better, it’s going to take the one, you know, mundane function, or functions that hate about my job, and make it go away.
16:38
And it’s just be honest here, outside of our world, personnel and human resources, the least enjoyable part of most people outside of Human Resources. I mean, no one wants to fool with that stuff, except us, we see them, you know, and so if we can find ways that, hey, this is gonna, so we can use it later or late. And,
16:57
but those roadblocks are there, it’s it’s all about buying and where that buy is in common fears.
17:07
Oh, correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel like roadblocks come up a lot more to when there’s a change in a company change initiatives start to happen. And, and really those affects the employees the most. I mean, I know it’s something that HR really has to deal with. But the change is affecting all the employees. And sometimes I feel like not it’s not always it that’s recognized. So how do you go about let’s talk about some of the change initiatives that that you have come across? And how do you feel it affects the operations of your employees?
17:42
And then, you know, so, you know, when talking about
17:48
overcoming the, you know, when you talk about the why, why is this going on? and things like that, you know, I like to bring it back to that. It’s, you know, are you communicating that effectively all you make? Are you making
18:04
the lights going on? Are you effectively communicating that to the folks that actually do the work? You know, No, nobody comes to my organization, because I’m a great chro, they come to my organization, because we have great practitioners, we have great nursing staff, we have compassionate front desk staff, and think that that’s why they come. They know you’re a great chro
18:33
they might come for that reason. Now.
18:36
Who knows? Anyways, the thing is, is that though, there are folks that do work, and there are folks that we have to make them, well, we have to try and make them see their partners, and see how this positively affects them. And, and be honest and transparent, like that. There may be some short term pain that comes along with this.
19:01
But
19:04
But, but the reason we’re doing this is because we want to make, you want to make your work life a little better. We want to make a needle and because if your work, life is a little better, you know what you’re going to take, you’re going to take care of our patients better. And that’s now that’s pretty much where,
19:24
you know, we got I think, where that message really needs to be really needs to be focused.
19:31
Agree, and I will say, I think that this is a big, big
19:37
problem right now there are because there are a lot of changes, and the Why doesn’t get communicated all the time. And this this may seem a little silly, but one that I’ve heard very common is that’s very common among a lot of HR professionals right now, it seems very small, but it’s a great example, I think everyone is using a virtual like zoom
20:00
Skype, video communication. And just the simple request of asking employees to turn on their cameras, is something that employees don’t understand it’s a change, because they started out this pandemic, they just had to get on, and just listen and be there. And now employers, especially HR professionals are starting to see that there, it’s easier to tell who’s engaged, who is really part of what’s going on, if the camera is on, they want to see faces, you know, people are missing that in person interaction. But I do feel like that’s the same situation employees don’t understand what I said my camera unless they’re told a reason why. And that would be because you’re not seeing people anymore.
20:44
One thing I’m saying with
20:46
a birth is early on, I imagine organizations are like this, we had a zoom call for everything.
20:53
Any type of question, let’s, let’s get a zoom call together. And let’s get everybody in. And, you know, it kind of goes back to pre pre COVID time, we we, you know, the thought of having too many meetings. And you know, I was always kind of taught and I’m coming more and more of a believer, if it can get done in 30 minutes to an hour, it’s not going to get done. And you know, meetings are meant to discuss what we’re going to do now what we need to do
21:15
kind of thing, and now is with organization, it has migrated to now
21:21
my amount of video conferencing with zoom be whatever is that that is down to a to a fairly efficient amount minimum, that it’s the conversations much more efficient than than what it was other other people that for whatever reason, by now, they don’t want to be on camera anyway. So they just want to hurry up and get over with.
21:43
Or they’re, you know, they’re trying to do some other work. And, and so it’s good to get face to face interactions. Because I know when I, my current employer, I’m on a modified schedule. So I go in the office two to three days a week, we keep our number down to a certain amount and, you know, cuts down our ratio of people in the offices. And so when I’m in the office, there is a little bit more socializing going on, but it is when I’m at home. Now some stuff I do have to go in, it’s more productive in the office when certain tasks but other tasks, it’s, it’s worked out well. But there is a
22:18
it making people turn the camera on. But I think the idea of not everyone’s comfortable in front of a camera versus face to face. And mine are in my situation. Now I am saying that the our meetings are much more more efficient, there’s less conversation going on. And you know, and it’s you know, especially when in a in a culture where well, relationships are important everywhere. And so but the relationships beyond, you know, beyond what’s work, so you know, discussing, you know, discussing the football game or discussing, you know, what you did what you did this weekend, you know, that type of thing
22:53
is much more productive. And so I, from my perspective, what I’m seeing, we’re seeing a, when we do have these types of meetings, the use of technology, virtual technology, it is much more,
23:05
more straight to the point. And I think that’s a beneficial thing.
23:08
Yeah, I’ve been finding with the technology, it’s that the meetings are you have a lot more than they are and the more frequent, but they’re a lot shorter, each individual one is a lot shorter. And I think it’s really taking care of like, you know, people really focusing on using their time efficiently, much money company the same on not having to buy lunch for lunch.
23:34
Never did buy lunch.
23:37
I worked for an organization once where if you had if you had a meeting anytime between, say 1130 and two o’clock in the afternoon, the expectation was you were supplying lunch? And if you didn’t, and if you didn’t you like people looked at you like you had four heads who got in trouble I was like, because when it comes to stuff like that, I am like the worst. I am like I think I’ve always like you don’t get the catering screwed up. I am like I am the worst. It’s like, when I have to plan a big party for my wife. I call up her sister and I say, Okay, I want to have a party for Karen. That’s it. Okay. Do whatever you want. Just tell me how much it costs. That’s what I want to know. Thank you. Well, that’s me. I’m bad person. When ever my company has a training or any type of conference or anything in person, and it runs through that middle of the day. I assume there’s going to be a lunch there. I just make because I’m going to get hungry. So if you want me to really be with you focus, I need some food. I need energy.
24:40
But yeah, I think that is the that is the assumption. At most places. It’s funny.
24:45
And now they don’t have that. I actually I did a conference about a few weeks ago. That was digital for the first time a webinar. And it is one that we usually do have lunch provided and so
25:00
I asked Is there gonna be a food delivered to me to my to my place during lunchtime? Since we’re, um, I knew that wasn’t But
25:13
yeah, I find that, you know, and during this time and working from home when it comes to like,
25:21
like, you know, you know, you’re sitting at your computer and you’re turning out work and things like that, and you look up and it’s 330 in the afternoon, and the only thing you’ve had to eat all day was, you know, the three cups of coffee, you had the jumpstart your day. Yeah. Yeah.
25:37
Yeah, no, I one thing that this is really making me think about is, you know, sitting at home so much that I’m working from home every day, and it has really made me see how much I enjoy what I do. But I also feel like it’s doing the opposite. For some employees, this is really a time where people are either starting to realize how much they love what they do, or they’re starting to realize, this may not really be what I want to do at all, or they loved it before. And now that they’re home doing it, it’s it’s not what they enjoy. So I feel like it’s very important right now for especially HR to find good ways to help employees learn how to value what their role is in the company. What do you What are you guys doing as far as that? Or what do you suggest?
26:24
I think it’s a real challenge for us. Um, one of the things is that because you know, a lot because we still distill, you know, we
26:35
there’s a lot more that we don’t know about this, there was a lot more that and, and, and what employees know, I found like folks at work they, they like to,
26:48
they like to know,
26:51
like, what’s what’s going on? And I try? Well, so essentially, what I’m trying to say is that they want to know like this, ain’t he? Well, if I can work from home, then maybe I don’t need to live in New York City, maybe I can live in, like, you know, the suburbs, and I can get that suburban life and I can get that into the hustle and bustle of the city. And, and I don’t have to worry about commuting into work anymore. And I could live like two hours, three hours outside of New York City. there’s a there’s a an article that was out or study where Millennials are moving out the burbs for that very reason. Yeah, I’m on the, I’m an old, what you call it z, I’m an old millennial, whatever that means, but
27:37
I’m just not that cool. But that the folks that are younger than me, I guess born after 8485 back that have been you know, that got hit kind of hard out of the gate with the Great Recession somewhat.
27:49
And, you know, had to stay home and save, you know, settle a student loan debt, they’ve been socking away money, you know, in terms of, you know, more environmental conscious. So living in cities, so there’s access to public transportation, well, now they able to take that money, he’s like, Man, I’m gonna go move out a little bit
28:07
about the suburbs, another country, one, you know, especially where I’m at. And that’s a good thing. Part of La the southern states have used some of that a lot of that stimulus money, they are Mississippi, Louisiana, to invest in high speed, fiber internet, in rural areas. I mean, rural, where there’s, there’s not a house for miles in between, it’s just farmland. And so
28:32
there’s some appeal to that to some folks, there really is. And so I live in a small bedroom community just outside of Jackson, that we’ve got we’ve had fire for a while, but about a mile down the road. It’s It’s It’s like DSL or something that states are realizing that type of infrastructure is just as important, then then roads and bridges which are very important themselves, but that’s pushing, you’re out of your eye, they’re questioning why do I need to go in office anyway? You know, some folks you know,
29:01
you know, I’ll use myself as an example. I feel like I have to go to work to feel productive. Now, I have made learning out of necessity, I have made myself get up, keep a schedule at home and do and I imagine most Americans and most people in the world have done the same thing to keep their job and you know, you made a point. Cory about folks, not I’m
29:23
not really passionate about their job. It’s unrealistic for HR people to think that everybody we hired be passionate about their job. So he was good at it. Some of us need a job. There’s nothing wrong with that. That is like working with her at all. There’s no paycheck and
29:41
be wrecked. You know, recognize that type of thing. And basically you’re right, stay in that communication and cater, that cater and do as much as you can help nurture that if they’re good employees, good employees more exciting. Regardless where their passion is.
29:56
Do you say this? This is a catch
30:00
You’re off guard, it’s fine. I just thought of this I
30:04
How do you feel about a change initiative that? I mean are? Is it something that’s done where instead of interviewing, or placing employees in the position that’s needed? Moving employees? Based on what position fits their personality type best? Once they’re within the company? Do you feel like that’s a effective change initiative to move people? professionals been trying to do that for decades? What I couldn’t hear you HR professionals have been trying to do that for ever. Yeah, every personality test every emotional iQ? Of course we do. But I,
30:43
it’s,
30:45
I can’t get up. In a good world. Yes. I think it’s a battle, I have to keep fighting. And it’s a good, it’s an ideal that HR and companies need to have to put you where you think you fitness. But that really needs to be in that. So I’m always encouraging employees and also having a tradition in place for cross training.
31:04
Not just to see what they like, if they’re if their person is a great employee, but terrible, that parallel or not that that particular job, but you want to keep good people. Because that is a philosophy instead of focusing on skills focus on on folks that have a great work ethic, opportunity. I particularly
31:23
hate that preference of mine over I mean, education is very important. Experience is very important. But just the the willingness to learn, and a willingness to listen.
31:35
To me almost trouble, a lot of that, and that’s what I that’s what I kind of look for, and I’m fortunate to work for an organization that has that same type of philosophy.
31:45
Yeah, in my experience, like, I know, you know, you hear people talk a lot about career ladders for your staff, career ladders, career ladders, and I’m not that big a believer in that.
31:58
You know, there are some there are some professions that have clearly defined ladders, like say, for example,
32:07
I have a medical assistant than a medical assistant can become an LPN, then an LPN, become an RN, then an RN can be maybe an RN, manager, and so on and so forth, and just sort of take that nursing. But
32:20
now,
32:22
and you see this a lot in health care is that it’s more like, the way I taught think about it’s like a career lattice, like say, for example, you, you follow that path? And then you say, do you start saying to yourself, you know, what, I think I can sort of run this clinical area, or I can run this. So then from that clinical role moving into an operational role, and, but when, when an organization has those defined career ladders, it’s like, and you have, and you have a person who has that desire to move into an operational role from a clinical role or, and then, or they’re in an operational role. And they say, you know, what, I know what I do impacts the care of patients, but I really want to start taking care of patients. So they move from that operation, operational role, and they go back to school, and they want to,
33:17
they want to work in a clinical role. It’s still those two things. So you know, if you know, career ladders are, are good for folks that really have that dedication, and they want to stay with, what they’re doing and what they’re comfortable with, and things like that. But we also have to give people
33:35
a way to
33:38
go go into another area, if they do have that desire.
33:44
I couldn’t agree more, you know, we wouldn’t, but we’re at the end are certain positions in the organization, folks on our boats, but back then,
33:52
there is a level of program that we call our steersman program, which it’s 10 folks that you know, decade to show promise and all that move up to, you know, to steersman, to make them a pilot, on up to a captain, and that that product, it’s an investment on the company’s part, it’s a commitment on theirs. And it is structured, but it’s one of those things where that that they’re in for that type of it works for some for some industries, and some types of positions, and not others.
34:22
And all honestly, if it HR departments doing its job, in my opinion, the manager should be having that conversation with that individual, fairly frequently, at least, you know, twice, three, four or five times a year, once a week. And what I’m getting at is retaining, retaining a retention of a great employee of a good point, a good person who wants to do great with the philosophy of the company, where May I want to keep this person here? I mean, it’s beyond in some cases.
34:48
This bonus number out here, if you get an employee to stay three to five years, that’s pretty decent. But if you can, especially young, the younger they are, the shorter that’s going to get. So the idea is what can we do to basically reinvent
35:00
This, this this company to that an individual not reinvent themselves, but where would you like to pivot to move to in three to five years and you know, and what skills you need to add move to that. That is that is really about buying from a management standpoint, HR is the is a very important role in that they’re not, are not the owners and should not be the owners of that, but have that type of mentality, but it’s looking, okay, you’re doing well, you know, you’re out to take on more responsibility, more pay,
35:29
whatever it is, for this move up to a senior level, whether you are or, you know, takes, you know, let’s cross training then pivots, to CPR in other areas, if that, if that makes you interesting, because we want to we want a person like you working for us
35:45
in the long haul, you know, we want you know, that’s foresee that you’re going to be that person that we go to as an influencer in the organization. But you got to keep it interesting. Some folks just like doing what they’re doing. And that’s okay, it’s good to have people like that, it’s also good to have folks that kind of move it up a little bit, because then you know, 10 1520 years from now,
36:03
they kind of can, they could almost, you know, move the company, it’s a it’s a, it’s a snag and has to clean up. And, and we’re a lot of hats, that person can be that can be can be the one that wears one of those, you know, several hats? Well, you’re speaking about several hats from what I’ve experienced. HR wears a lot of hats, a lot, and, and not always ones that really fall under HR, but they’re just kind of, they end up falling on the shoulders of HR, and kind of to what you were saying, Alan, me helping managers in helping their employees, we you really are the guidance for the managers, not so much. Should you be doing what the manager should be doing. And I feel like that happens for a lot of a lot of HR professionals. Sometimes they end up just kind of doing instead of being that guidance. I how do you guys suggest? Or I mean, are there ways to make this change? And kind of set yourself out there that you’re more of the guidance and just doing everything that needs to be done?
37:10
Yeah, I mean, like, I actually address it, when on an employee’s first day in orientation, I say, No, when we talk about, you know, what the HR department does, and things like that, what I talked to him, he says, you know, chances are, you may have an issue that, you know, you’re going to, you’re going to call up HR, and you’re going to say, Listen, my,
37:31
my, my boss is mean, my, my boss says this, my boss says that, or whatever, and I’m gonna, and and you’re gonna, and I said, and you’re going to expect me to say to you, okay, I’ll speak to your boss, and then I hang up the phone, and then I, and then then I speak to your boss, that’s what you’re going to expect me to do. I said, I’m going to tell you right now, I’m not going to do that. I said, What I am going to do is, I am going to help you have that conversation with your boss, to discuss the issue that you have.
38:03
And what I will do is, I will, I will focus on having that boss listen to you, as you’re telling them what your issue is. Because when I say because
38:18
if I if I say okay, I’m going to talk to your boss for you, and I hang up the phone, and then I speak to your boss, I’ve solved that issue right there right now. But what I have not done is anything that is going to improve your relationship with your boss and your boss’s relationship with you on an ongoing basis. And that’s what you need to do you if you have a I expect my managers when an employee has where employee has an issue, I expect my managers we train our managers listen to what they have to say. You have to listen to what they have to say. Because while you may think while you may think that it’s not really that important issue or whatever
39:06
that issue is important to at least one person, that’s the person who’s bringing it to you. And as far as that person is concerned, it’s the most important issue going on in the world at that time.
39:20
And that snapshot of time and that’s why so that’s why you need to listen to your staff did and I and then I say no. Now you got to understand another thing is that
39:29
you are
39:31
you almost have like an inalienable an inalienable right to have your to be listened to when it comes to your issue. You don’t have the right to do yes. So there’s a lot of times when you bring an issue to your boss and your boss is going to say not can’t do that. Now, what I expect is that your boss is going to say not can’t do that, but gives you the reason why not and it’s not a
40:00
Because I said, or because you know, it’s going to be a real reason. Okay. But that’s what, that’s what I expect and, and I’m here to help you
40:11
have the best employment experience that you possibly can.
40:18
I don’t see how I’m helping you do that by taking your issues and making them mine to fix for you.
40:27
I agree. Yeah.
40:33
Right, you have our lives at work there that are sleeping. I mean, it’s just be honest, it’s better sleep by the time we retire and able to retire you.
40:43
Unless you just got to a profession that you’re able to do that you’re already kind of past your prime minister, I did really enjoy it. I mean, it’s still it’s still enjoying it. But, you know, what I will say, though, is there’s some areas, though, that obviously, weren’t employed, just doesn’t feel comfortable going to his manager, though. Yeah, find that now in terms of job performance, or in terms of just a co worker, or just,
41:06
yeah, it’s always pushed that back in and you imagine it, most folks that will listen to this, you know, there’s, there’s always that, I would say, handful, there’s those groups of employees that will always you know, them better than anybody know, that will come straight to you for everything
41:21
I give, when I when I travel, other sites I gave my,
41:25
I gave my business card to other employees and all that, and it’s like, he called myself my cell number is on there. And, you know, yeah, I’ll get, I’ll get a call on a Sunday night, and there’s, you know, a couple yards, you know, or Saturday morning for a couple boys just want to talk. And, but I feel like that’s what it’s for, or whatever they want to but
41:46
you know, but it’s most the time that they’re willing to chat and talk about work, and I’m trying to follow a protocol, but it is a Saturday morning, I’d rather be doing anything but that, but it’s my job to tell you how to do. But for some cases, our an employee may not feel comfortable talking, you know, and it may be a personal issue. So, you know, define it is, it’s really important that we’re not gonna make it go away, if there’s any, obviously a benefit issue.
42:10
Their managers want to solve that anyway. And I really, and it’s, it’s a hard time, but I really do not like any employees or phone number to call, I’ve had to do it, because I cannot, I can only do so much. Because I feel that’s that takes away the one on one
42:28
connection that we have. And so that is going to strike, you know, go straight to HR to try to fix something. But when it comes to actually dealing with folks and also with and you know, not just organizational change, when there’s a new policy being implemented down or new philosophy, you got new, just a new managers a new isn’t, isn’t itself as a orders as a change in that market organization. In that area.
42:51
It’s good practice to always push that unless there’s some sort of, you know, inappropriate language or some sort of, or something that, you know, because people do have a right to go to work and not have to be feel uncomfortable all the time. And of course, it varies in terms of from environment and in an industry of that sort. But I would say pick what you just, it’s some things it’s employee should feel comfortable coming straight to us, we might not be able to fix it, but at least listen. And and and that does build it builds equity and eight with the HR department would buy on other people. And that’s always we’re always have because look, unless we are a human resource department is a huge organization, we do not generate revenue.
43:32
I mean, we’re not we’re not we’re not a profit center. I mean, we’re the most we’re probably the biggest parts of expenses, you know, assaults. So some areas, we can if we have a training that if an organization has a certain training setup, where we can outsource our training and make money off of that, but that’s it’s few and far between, I’ve heard of them, I’ve been a part of some of that it’s awesome. But realistically, the average in the HR department is that is the part that does not on the front end at face value does not generate revenue for the company. But it can also cost you know, cause the organization to lose money in other areas outside of HR if it’s not done properly.
44:11
And it’s that it’s in that weird world. But so in order for us to have any leverage
44:16
with an equity within our with our management with an executive level,
44:22
it’s important to get that where employees feel comfortable coming to us. And I think that’s another place where we can help move that change along and say, hey, yeah, this this thinks this is what’s going on. But in the long run, this is where we’re gonna be and encourage those employees to say, hey, if you see something wrong, man, it’s your job to say something. That’s what I want you to we want you to do your job, but we want it we want but always suggestions, we might not always take them but keep that dialogue going with your manager.
44:51
So yeah, I just I think there’s there’s most cases definitely but in some cases, that’s an opportunity for HR departments to build equity among them.
45:00
Employees that’s not at a management level. Right? Yeah. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Oh, go ahead, Korea time, I wanted to just share an experience that’s happened to me that I actually feel like happens to a lot of younger employees. So right straight out of college, I worked for a very large corporation. And I ended up having a manager that I felt was just did not speak appropriately to our team raised their voice, not professional language. And it really made me uncomfortable, it made me feel like I couldn’t do my job the way I should. And it really made me hate coming to work. And to be honest, I don’t feel like I’m the only one that this happens to as a, as a new employee, a younger employee, especially someone who hasn’t had a lot of working experience. I didn’t even really know what HR was or what they did. And I had absolutely no clue that that was a department or someone that I could go to, and explain that situation. And it would stay private. I, I found I really figured that out later on after I left, and it was a little, you know, it was a little disappointing, because I wish I had been told that right from the get go when I started. That that’s what that’s what HR is there for. And I don’t feel like people know that. When they’re new employees a lot of times, do you find that that happens with younger or just new employees sometimes?
46:28
Yeah, Yeah, I do. And they don’t know, they don’t know necessarily when to come to HR or when not to come to HR and I know that can be and that because
46:38
the idea idea needs to be in an organization, I think is that if an employee comes to HR,
46:46
that employee cannot be
46:50
you know, and then do it just the employee cannot cannot be made to feel like why’d you go to HR for why didn’t you just come to me? And I said, well, because you talk to me like that, and that’s why I have HR? Well, that’s what the Mmm, you know, when something that we actually had, you know, I’ve had issues in the past where,
47:12
you know, the
47:15
people, you know, people in authority talking, you know, talking so disrespectfully to other people is that I can aware, you know, the employee would like cry, and I mean, not, not like, you know, the lower lip, you know, welling up a little bit. I mean, like full out ball and dry heaving cry. And it’s explaining this to somebody once and the individual said to me, Well, can you can understand the person never really had any mentorship when it came to a leadership position and things like I said, Hold on, wait a second, wait a second. I said, That’s not a problem. Mentoring. That’s a problem of parenting. Okay. It’s, if you’re talking to people where you make them cry, that’s, that’s not a mentorship issue. That’s a parent ship issue. All right, I think you’re gonna want a workshop for that, that you could do on a Thursday, you know, it’s
48:11
so basic human, you know, basic decency there. Yeah, it is. Well, what’s funny about that we joke is that that is related that is used often sometimes for inappropriate behavior.
48:24
Or, well, we were not trained as such, or we were, well, we raised it up where you raised him in a cave beforehand, you know, and that’s it, but you have to, and honestly, it’s sad to say it’s almost job security for HR people, because you have to deal with stuff like that all the time. And I would prefer to deal with a lot of other things besides that. But that is you sadly, where in NetSuite or HR one has to has to make that stand and, and like, no, that’s that’s common decency is exhibited, when we hired you, you exhibited most the time, you know, as you’ve been here, so we know, you know, better. And it’s not a lack of leadership training or
49:05
mentoring or that,
49:08
you know, so, hey, hey, well, I really appreciate guys coming on the podcast today, resourceful humans, you were both great. And I learned a lot, because I was throwing questions at you that have never come up before. So I thought it was great. And hopefully, you’ll come back again. And if anyone has further questions for you, and wants to chat, they can definitely find your profile in LinkedIn and the comments below and the posts and they can reach out but I really hope everyone writes their comments and feedback or questions in the comments so that you can interact with them and answer their questions. So thank you guys. No, thank you very much. This was this was excellent, Alan, great meeting you and you know, I really thrive on talking. So thank you.
50:00
This is great. And can is a pleasure. This was fun. I want to do it again. Yeah, it’s all right.
50:07
Hi. So we are back about three months later, and we’re gonna touch base on something we weren’t really able to discuss before. And that is how has using HR as an engine of change in your business changed because of the pandemic. So I know that some places in some areas are starting to go back to imperson. Some are not. But that also changes how we use HR as an engine of change. So what are your suggestions? Or, you know, how have you guys been doing that with the changing with the pandemic?
50:41
Well, I mean, on our end, you’d always we’ve been, we’ve had about 50% of our workforce working remotely. And another 50%, working, you know, in our health centers,
50:54
right now was still was still holding service farm is those 50 that are working remotely. But as we start considering,
51:04
as we start to consider bringing folks back into offices. Now, there are a lot of things that we were realizing that we do have to consider the fact that schools are still, you know, either 5050, remote learning and impersonal learning or even greater than, you know, maybe going in once a week to the school, but the other four days. So that’s something that we have to
51:29
that we have to confirm, provide our employees with resources, and
51:35
providing our employees with, with resources to help them cope with the remote learning needs of the children. And that’s a big thing for us.
51:56
Elon leaned closer I can’t hear you. Now. Yes. All right. Well, is this part of the country, many schools are either back at least full time
52:06
with a vertical option.
52:09
Our particular organization, not many schools had our many of our employees have opted for a full virtual with their children. So it’s, you know, we were remaining to be, you know, flexible. Without what our staff had gone as far as looking at providing some equipment, or views of company equipment to help their children with school.
52:29
One thing we’ve done is we’ve it’s important as we get back, and we’re saying is, and we learned the hard way, we tried to come back full time, months ago, and
52:40
we did not transition from a modified schedule, that was very complex to keep the concentrations of people down,
52:48
we came back to quickly.
52:50
And, you know, what we did was mostly learned from that I got coded result, that moving too fast was go back to a modified schedule, but slowly
53:00
adjust, you know, and then you know, because you know, it’s been a year, it truly has been a year, since we’ve been out. And so employees do get comfortable, and they have learned you’re comfortable working at home that normally wouldn’t.
53:16
And which isn’t a bad thing, but
53:20
wasn’t depending on the organization, how its structured, there’s, it’s almost a change of culture change in terms of
53:27
having to learn how to come to work all over again, not completely, but it’s definitely at some transition. But what we’ve done is we’ve we’ve slowly we’ve gone to a different modified schedule, it was 50% capacity. They’re grouped together based on obviously, geographic space, but on functionality.
53:46
One of the difficulties with fallot, though, is that when someone’s gonna go out and cannot work remotely, then they’re out
53:53
is, you know, we run it wherever the organization is, is. We there’s lots of holes there, that starts to show and strain. So
54:02
you know, just making sure that we are making those right steps in the organization to make those right steps to not overdo it. Because not only are we talking about to work due to not having to have the
54:14
robot is manageable, but as an organization, that we’re having to learn to walk all over again.
54:26
Yeah, and like I’m, like, with us, it’s, um, you know, it’s also dealing with, you know, the people in our different communities and, and things like that, you know, where are we? Where are we with,
54:40
you know, like, we have a segment of our workforce that, you know, goes out into community makes home visits and things like that. And that’s still I don’t know when our staff are going to be ready to do that again, actually, I mean, it’s only on restaurants are only going to be in New York City restaurants are only going to be open for 25 years.
55:00
Send capacity in person on Valentine’s Day that starts, you know, so
55:07
what? What are you seeing? As far as you know, I know that wearing the masks at work and getting the shots, everything related to that is falling under HR. I know you’re both in very different industries. So, like in healthcare industry, can, your employees are going to get it sooner and have more access? But it just did not from an outside perspective for any industry? What do you what do you see as using it? I mean, are you are you think businesses are going to start requiring this vaccine? Or should they are? Okay, so I would say, I would say I don’t, depending on the state you’re in, maybe they can, I know, in New York State requiring it would be very, very difficult. And that’s the first thing. Second of all, you know, it’s also fighting a number of, you know, cultural
56:06
limitations is the wrong word. But, you know, some cultural concerns about vaccines in general. And,
56:15
and I think what’s important for us,
56:19
as HR professionals, is that, you know, people have their reasons for not taking it, and regardless of what you might think, personally, about, you know, their reasons for not taking it, there their reasons for not taking it, and you gotta respect that, you just absolutely have to respect that. And I think that’s, that’s really important for us, as as a profession is like, you know, respect other people’s beliefs when it comes to, you know, something like,
56:52
something like the COVID vaccine.
56:57
Down here, it’s, it’s industry specific, it’s not required in our industry. But as a company, we made a decision to we did it was discussed, we want to make it mandatory.
57:06
And
57:08
decided that’s not the best course of action, we want to encourage it, like we’ve heard any of it the flu shot I’m working on getting once we’re able to
57:18
help him with a new administration made it even more centralized approach to having vaccines done on site worksite. Some of our, I won’t say competitors, or complimentary
57:29
companies that kind of accomplish our industry,
57:32
or on the shortlist bacon with a clear state and how they’re able to get that expedited, or we’ll be able to have the next by March, early April, had an worksite, I was on the first thing I wanted to do. Hopefully, we finished up enrollment this year was looking at missing gets out, let’s just have this thing available.
57:51
And, you know, let people know, because what I’m seeing a lot of folks is when they’re out in our particular industries, they want to go out they want to work, even though emergency paid sick leave Act has been tremendous, it’s been huge. It’s helped, it’s been able to help stabilize with no families and working, not eating up the pain, how you know what your organization did it, we didn’t tie that to their existing sickly, it was just an additional 10 days for them to go and, but still, you want to work, we want to come to work needed for something, you know, and that’s it.
58:27
You know, and especially people that have had children, you know, they want it’s like, you don’t want to have this, it’s not a good thing to have,
58:35
how mild it is, or how severe it is for you. So, it there’s a lot of there’s a lot of there’s a lot of cultural concerns, I guess I’m not sure that it will be that spreads pretty broadly, a lot of people do or do not want to have a deal about this about the type of vaccine. I mean, whether it was it was pushed through very quickly, regardless of you know, that was due to, you know, some bureaucratic roadblocks removed to help push it through or what, or just whatever reason, or just, you know, this distrust of a of a mass, you know, mandated produced vaccine that goes back that goes back generations. Yeah.
59:16
So, and you have to deal with that, but having valuable intelligence, it’s important to lead from the top that is a our CEO or chief operating officer of both. One is a cancer survivor. And one is, you know, they’re both, you know, what, at their peak, you know, they’re very, you know, health is concerning to them, you know, they’re at that point, and they were the first in line, like, Look, Captain the ship, this is what we’re gonna do.
59:39
You know, it’s everything, you know, you have nothing to be worried about kind of thing. So, but in the end, you have to respect people’s wishes. Provide the safest workplace that you possibly can.
59:51
I mean, thank goodness. Now PT is not as hard to come by as it was six, eight months ago. Yeah. Now, I mean, it’s I’ve actually got an impact.
1:00:00
torey OPB as opposed to working, we ration it, you know? So yes, um, you know, it’s just, I’m not at with I don’t foresee that thing being mandatory in all industries, it won’t be with us. And I think I think you’re both right in that you should encourage it. But how would you how I mean, how do you even spread the word? How do employees even know if your leadership has gotten the shot, because that’s leading by example, of course. But how you know how it’s not leading by example, in the sense that they may not even know we have, we have what we call you have two communication vehicles, we have
1:00:37
the CEOs weekly memo, and then we also have the CH, Mo, be called a ch n pulse. And there’s plenty of pictures on there of us on the executive team, getting the getting the vaccination, things like that. And that’s and those are the vehicles were using to try and encourage folks to go ahead and take it right now we’re at about
1:01:03
six, I would say 60% of our staff
1:01:07
that work in our health centers that are designated as I guess one a is what they call it, one a or one B, so about 60%, between six, I should say, you know, that number is probably higher now. So it’s probably between 60 and 70. have in fact received it.
1:01:23
Yeah, at least the first steps, and the second doses are coming out in
1:01:29
a start up now for us.
1:01:33
Yeah. Are you, Ellen? Are you is your company doing anything to kind of get a memo out? Or, you know, well, we have a every department or division has a weekly breakdown of what’s going on.
1:01:47
It’s disgusting. It’s a word of mouth marks in that situation we do have.
1:01:54
So that’s, that’s what we’re communicating. I now work. We’re a lot we’re pretty good sized company that we’re not well, where we happen to have something
1:02:02
you know, a newsletter, odds are for the newsletter. Most folks and this might be too busy to read it. But that, you know, guys talking about, you know, getting shot or, you know, you know, companies doing this, that that works best with us. That’s our best form of communication when it comes to things of that and especially with buying, you know, that’s what we’re
1:02:23
able to, you know, we’re able to have that dialogue with an off site
1:02:27
or on sites throughout the company, then they will be communicating much with the facts class, and those types of things. So to encourage them, this is what’s available to you and we can
1:02:39
do it.